Honorverse ramblings and musings

Let's revisit this . . .

SCENARIO:

When I was a kid there was an annual Easter Egg Hunt held at Easter. Kids had to find hidden eggs scattered about the grasses. There was always one special egg painted differently than all the other eggs that was especially valuable. The value being some prize that a kid would really want, like the latest game machine. Imagine the same contest as adults. But the special egg is now worth TEN MILLION DOLLARS!

Well, everyone enters the contest. It is suddenly revealed that a certain woman in the contest named Honor has a friend that can detect the special egg. Do you want that friend there?

"Hey, that thing can detect the special egg!"
"He won't tell her!"
"Says who!?"
"He won't tell her."
"Will you watch him and see that he doesn't whisper it or something? Or give some sort of signal? Can we just get him out of here!?"

If the ability is discovered after the contest, someone may be hunted down and killed over TEN MILLION dollars. On Grayson, ten million austins isn't on the line. Simply their souls.

****** *

I've shared on numerous occasions English teachers commending me on my ability to become the character. I charge the forum, for once in your lives. BE THE CHARACTER! Take the scenario above, substitute YOUR LIFE in the place of TEN MILLION dollars as the prize you are seeking for finding the special Easter Egg. At the moment someone else finds the egg first, you die.

Close your eyes and put yourself in the shoes of doom, the moment of realization.

CLOSE YOUR EYES! . . . NOW! . . .

"Oh shit!"

Tremors of fear move down your spine and you shake in you boots. You are doomed. Your hands are clammy. You can't speak. Pfft! You are gone.

LIFE or DEATH is the stakes. Do you honestly want the woman participating who can detect the whereabouts of the egg? Do you really think it's fair? Do you really want her friend, who can also detect the egg, to be present? Remember, it's your life.

Go on, tell the forum you really want her there and how fair you really think it is. Go on.

Exidor wrote:All-in-all, though - I'm about five-eighths convinced that all your arguments - be it regarding Honor's actions on Grayson, or how the Solarians viewed Beowolf as treasonous - are actually a way of getting around the fanfic restrictions Mr. Weber places on his work.

kzt wrote:You should realize that there is no evidence that he's ever actually read any of the books. As far as I can determine, his hornorvere arguments are solely this based on some article in some wiki somewhere.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:He has read the books thoroughly.

He just has the nerve to look under the skirt.

PeterZ wrote:If he looked up Honor's skirt, her armsmen would shoot him quick as a wink. They'd stop feeling guilty as soon as they realized what he was saying about her.

Now there several posters who challenge the story and back their views darned well. They aren't looking up anyone's skirts to do it either.

cthia wrote:I'm a perfect gentleman, Peter. I'll look away even when the wind blows a skirt aloft. But, I can't erase the glimpse.

Personally, I've never had a problem getting a woman to remove her skirt, for me.

Since I've got the balls and the confidence to simply ask Honor, eat your heart out.

Ah, but the confidence to ask does not reflect the suavity necessary to succeed in the circumstances under discussion. The positions you are advocating are both insulting and demeaning to Honor. Undeservedly so in my opinion. Casting underserved blame at a woman is hardly an effective tactic to get her feeling intimate.

cthia wrote:LIFE or DEATH is the stakes. Do you honestly want the woman participating who can detect the whereabouts of the egg? Do you really think it's fair? Do you really want her friend, who can also detect the egg, to be present? Remember, it's your life.

Go on, tell the forum you really want her there and how fair you really think it is. Go on.

Not the same thing: Burdette's only chance at life was to win the Trial by Combat; if he either refuses to fight or loses, then he dies. Given his guilt, it was very fair that he died, it would be very unfair to his victims if he had won.

Exidor wrote:All-in-all, though - I'm about five-eighths convinced that all your arguments - be it regarding Honor's actions on Grayson, or how the Solarians viewed Beowolf as treasonous - are actually a way of getting around the fanfic restrictions Mr. Weber places on his work.

kzt wrote:You should realize that there is no evidence that he's ever actually read any of the books. As far as I can determine, his hornorvere arguments are solely this based on some article in some wiki somewhere.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:He has read the books thoroughly.

He just has the nerve to look under the skirt.

PeterZ wrote:If he looked up Honor's skirt, her armsmen would shoot him quick as a wink. They'd stop feeling guilty as soon as they realized what he was saying about her.

Now there several posters who challenge the story and back their views darned well. They aren't looking up anyone's skirts to do it either.

cthia wrote:I'm a perfect gentleman, Peter. I'll look away even when the wind blows a skirt aloft. But, I can't erase the glimpse.

Personally, I've never had a problem getting a woman to remove her skirt, for me.

Since I've got the balls and the confidence to simply ask Honor, eat your heart out.

PeterZ wrote:Ah, but the confidence to ask does not reflect the suavity necessary to succeed in the circumstances under discussion. The positions you are advocating are both insulting and demeaning to Honor. Undeservedly so in my opinion. Casting underserved blame at a woman is hardly an effective tactic to get her feeling intimate.

Peter, I would have been able to discuss anything with Honor. Since I'd have been sleeping with her from way back On Basilisk Station. I would have cried like a baby over what happened to Honor. As a Queen's officer I would have damn near self-destructed had I not even known her personally. She'd only have had to sample my emotions and she'd have asked me out. If left back in the Star Kingdom, I'd have raised more hell over what happened to her than ten Catherine Montaignes! But through it all, I'd still have told her she made a bad call, just like if Paul would have pointed out to her the scandal she could be bringing to Grayson. And she'd have accepted it.


Honor, has always been a bastion of truth. Honor, would not want anyone pussyfooting around that truth. Honor, would have no problem admitting that truth to herself and to the world, should it ever be presented to her. Honor, would admit that allowing Nimitz to remain during the duel was not the correct strategic decision under the circumstances regardless of whether or not she intended to shun the unfair advantage. Honor would realize the severity of the mistake on a planet like Grayson.

Honor is only human. She made an error in judgement that can greatly impact Grayson. There is no way that I think she intentionally cheated. I don't even think her focus was on being fair to Burdette. She was wounded. Tired. Hungry. Angry. Sleepy and grieving. And she wanted to sever - Burdette's ties with the world along with his neck. Many professionals make an error in judgement in the midst of a lack of sleep and a whole lot less problems than Honor had.


But the THING is irrefutable.

Whether it went down like that or no, after learning her secret, would you not cry like a bitch about the unfairness of it all, if it was your head on the chopping block? Sure you wouldn't.

cthia wrote:More importantly, removing any later chance of a scandal of epic proportions brought to Grayson and preserving the integrity of the People's Champion and more importantly the righteousness of Grayson's religious beliefs.

The Trial by Combat occurred in 1907 PD and about 16 years have gone by in which Honor has become the MVP; a heroine to Manticore and Grayson and perhaps even to Haven. So when should we expect this great unraveling of Grayson's faith to occur? It did not happen when Mueller was executed for his treason. We do not expect RFC to write about it in any upcoming stories.
Unlike your elaborate theory about Beowulf and karma, which could be answered by UH, we never expect to see a resolution to the theory you propose around Burdette's death. So there is no reason why you cannot continue to be conflicted, while the rest of us say good riddance.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:More importantly, removing any later chance of a scandal of epic proportions brought to Grayson and preserving the integrity of the People's Champion and more importantly the righteousness of Grayson's religious beliefs.

The Trial by Combat occurred in 1907 PD and about 16 years have gone by in which Honor has become the MVP; a heroine to Manticore and Grayson and perhaps even to Haven. So when should we expect this great unraveling of Grayson's faith to occur? It did not happen when Mueller was executed for his treason. We do not expect RFC to write about it in any upcoming stories.
Unlike your elaborate theory about Beowulf and karma, which could be answered by UH, we never expect to see a resolution to the theory you propose around Burdette's death. So there is no reason why you cannot continue to be conflicted, while the rest of us say good riddance.

Rest of us? You speaking for the masses? This discussion rages with over 75 people (in 23 cities across the globe now), not counting the forum. It'll continue long after you're gone and I'm sure will be a bit better off with your absence. The discussion has progressed much further in my social circles and I enjoy it immensely. So, see yourself out. I won't miss you.

As far as trusting your opinion (considering the source) that you have correctly digested UH as far the Beowulf thread you keep harping on? Pfff!

cthia wrote: Rest of us? You speaking for the masses? This discussion rages with over 75 people (in 23 cities across the globe now), not counting the forum. It'll continue long after you're gone and I'm sure will be a bit better off with your absence. The discussion has progressed much further in my social circles and I enjoy it immensely. So, see yourself out. I won't miss you.

As far as trusting your opinion (considering the source) that you have correctly digested UH as far the Beowulf thread you keep harping on? Pfff!

Certainly I can only speak for what I have seen in the Forum and not for this great network you have.

Speaking of harping on Beowulf, in the Retirement Age thread you said the following

cthia wrote:Over in the Beowulf the Karma Suitsya thread, how could anyone doubt that the SLN and many Solarian League officers, not to mention many Solarian citizens would think Beowulf's actions were treasonous? How? Just how could anyone not see that? Judging by that thread, I am the only one who saw that! Unbelievable!

As you know perfectly well, pretty much everyone saw that and it was not the point of anyone's disagreement with you.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote: Rest of us? You speaking for the masses? This discussion rages with over 75 people (in 23 cities across the globe now), not counting the forum. It'll continue long after you're gone and I'm sure will be a bit better off with your absence. The discussion has progressed much further in my social circles and I enjoy it immensely. So, see yourself out. I won't miss you.

As far as trusting your opinion (considering the source) that you have correctly digested UH as far the Beowulf thread you keep harping on? Pfff!

Certainly I can only speak for what I have seen in the Forum and not for this great network you have.

Speaking of harping on Beowulf, in the Retirement Age thread you said the following

cthia wrote:Over in the Beowulf the Karma Suitsya thread, how could anyone doubt that the SLN and many Solarian League officers, not to mention many Solarian citizens would think Beowulf's actions were treasonous? How? Just how could anyone not see that? Judging by that thread, I am the only one who saw that! Unbelievable!

As you know perfectly well, pretty much everyone saw that and it was not the point of anyone's disagreement with you.

What forum? Seems to still be raging here as well. Except for the two human speedbumps, the same consistent human speedbumps. Classroom cutups.

So, this isn't good riddance? I feel as sad as I did when my sister rang me and told me she couldn't bring me the peach cobbler she promised me this weekend on account of the snow.

Oh, my "great network of friends" that you don't think exist. Don't worry, they can hardly believe people like you exist either, who can't maturely discuss a novel without petty jealousies.

Losing an argument makes someone change the subject and accuse me of looking up Honor's skirt without permission. A "pastor" accused me of deceitfully trying to circumvent the author's fanfic rule??? "A preacher."

My enjoying book discussions simply can't be the truth. My father taught me to think and see outside the box "Where life is" when I was a snotty nosed kid.

Exidor wrote:All-in-all, though - I'm about five-eighths convinced that all your arguments - be it regarding Honor's actions on Grayson, or how the Solarians viewed Beowolf as treasonous - are actually a way of getting around the fanfic restrictions Mr. Weber places on his work.

kzt wrote:You should realize that there is no evidence that he's ever actually read any of the books. As far as I can determine, his hornorvere arguments are solely this based on some article in some wiki somewhere.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:He has read the books thoroughly.

He just has the nerve to look under the skirt.

PeterZ wrote:If he looked up Honor's skirt, her armsmen would shoot him quick as a wink. They'd stop feeling guilty as soon as they realized what he was saying about her.

Now there several posters who challenge the story and back their views darned well. They aren't looking up anyone's skirts to do it either.

cthia wrote:I'm a perfect gentleman, Peter. I'll look away even when the wind blows a skirt aloft. But, I can't erase the glimpse.

Personally, I've never had a problem getting a woman to remove her skirt, for me.

Since I've got the balls and the confidence to simply ask Honor, eat your heart out.

PeterZ wrote:Ah, but the confidence to ask does not reflect the suavity necessary to succeed in the circumstances under discussion. The positions you are advocating are both insulting and demeaning to Honor. Undeservedly so in my opinion. Casting underserved blame at a woman is hardly an effective tactic to get her feeling intimate.

cthia wrote:
Peter, I would have been able to discuss anything with Honor. Since I'd have been sleeping with her from way back On Basilisk Station. I would have cried like a baby over what happened to Honor. As a Queen's officer I would have damn near self-destructed had I not even known her personally. She'd only have had to sample my emotions and she'd have asked me out. If left back in the Star Kingdom, I'd have raised more hell over what happened to her than ten Catherine Montaignes! But through it all, I'd still have told her she made a bad call, just like if Paul would have pointed out to her the scandal she could be bringing to Grayson. And she'd have accepted it.


Honor, has always been a bastion of truth. Honor, would not want anyone pussyfooting around that truth. Honor, would have no problem admitting that truth to herself and to the world, should it ever be presented to her. Honor, would admit that allowing Nimitz to remain during the duel was not the correct strategic decision under the circumstances regardless of whether or not she intended to shun the unfair advantage. Honor would realize the severity of the mistake on a planet like Grayson.

Honor is only human. She made an error in judgement that can greatly impact Grayson. There is no way that I think she intentionally cheated. I don't even think her focus was on being fair to Burdette. She was wounded. Tired. Hungry. Angry. Sleepy and grieving. And she wanted to sever - Burdette's ties with the world along with his neck. Many professionals make an error in judgement in the midst of a lack of sleep and a whole lot less problems than Honor had.


But the THING is irrefutable.

Whether it went down like that or no, after learning her secret, would you not cry like a bitch about the unfairness of it all, if it was your head on the chopping block? Sure you wouldn't.

As I have argued, this is not cheating. She is executing the SOB, not giving him a fair chance to live. She isn't competing in a contest meant to text specific skills. Honor isn't playing a game. Honor isn't trying engage Burdette in any way other than trying to kill him. She is sanctioned by the Protector to do that one thing. That is to kill Burdette with a sword. Even if Honor was a powerful telepath who knew every action Burdette will take as soon as he decided to take that action, it still would not have been cheating, immoral or unjust for her to use that skill to kill the SOB.

This is not a contest in the legal sense. It is an execution. The trial element was settled when Burdette admitted guilt. Burdette is morally in the wrong any way his actions are viewed, so cannot claim moral justification for his awful actions that include murder. Your claim that Honor had to give that guilty bigot a better chance to survive in order to be just is ludicrous. The law asserted that he deserved death and Honor gave it to him. Punct Schloss!

This'll be my last post on the subject. There is nothing to be learned from continuing.