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Did the MBS corner the market on trade?

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Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:54 am

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Originally posted in the wrong thread. Begs dozens of pardons for the transplant.

cthia wrote:If the SLN is grounded, who is controlling their terminus?

Theemile wrote:Which Terminus?

cthia wrote:Any of them. They can't leave their system. Having to remain on one side of a door without opening it is beyond the capability of humans. And, who will escort their freighters?

Theemile wrote:They can't leave SL space, not SL systems. As long as the terminus (and wormhole) is associated with an SL system, why would they not be able to police it?

And beyond the attempt to force the closed wormhole at Zunker, when have we ever seen a SLN ship escort a freighter?

Probably never. But they're going to have to now. They've lost their edge. The same pirates they've supported may now be living in a system apart from the SL. Nothing personal, but we still need to eat. And SL freighters are conveniently naked. The previous emperor now wears no clothes. The pirates are going to show him he's naked.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by Dauntless   » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:20 am

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most pirates in SL/verge space were SLN/OFS mercs pretending to be pirates.

Silesa is a weird exception, something to do with the fact that almost everybody in power, civilian and military was corrupt or just didn't care.

so in general, no the SLN won't start escorting freighters
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Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by Theemile   » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:29 am

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cthia wrote:Originally posted in the wrong thread. Begs dozens of pardons for the transplant.

cthia wrote:If the SLN is grounded, who is controlling their terminus?

Theemile wrote:Which Terminus?

cthia wrote:Any of them. They can't leave their system. Having to remain on one side of a door without opening it is beyond the capability of humans. And, who will escort their freighters?

Theemile wrote:They can't leave SL space, not SL systems. As long as the terminus (and wormhole) is associated with an SL system, why would they not be able to police it?

And beyond the attempt to force the closed wormhole at Zunker, when have we ever seen a SLN ship escort a freighter?

Probably never. But they're going to have to now. They've lost their edge. The same pirates they've supported may now be living in a system apart from the SL. Nothing personal, but we still need to eat. And SL freighters are conveniently naked. The previous emperor now wears no clothes. The pirates are going to show him he's naked.


The SL never supported pirates... the SLN WAS the pirates. Case Buccaneer, or whatever it was called, was SLN warships using ECM and false transmitters to pretend to be pirates, so they could forcibly effect politics in regions of the verge without being seen "doing it themselves".

Come on, why would "Pirate Dan" take every traffic and weather satellite in a system after he destroyed their navy and their cargo station? Not because he would make $$ off them, not because he got his jollies being a jerk, no. If he was a real pirate, every regional navy would hunt someone like that down.

The reason he did that was because he was an SLN officer with SLN ships and a scorched earth policy would force the planetary government to cuddle up to the OFS and the Transstellars for protection and "prosperity".
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:26 am

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:lol:

Absolutely. They were the pirates. But, had they fairly recently become the ROOT of piracy? In my original post I included a passage which HoS says the SL also supported Transtellars who operated by piracy. Consider what a huge conglomerate can accomplish here on Earth, if they could operate a department of piracy against it's competition, with the blessing of its own country.

These Transtellars were originally all a part of the SL. With the rampant domino effect of secessions, any particular Transtellar may no longer be a part of the SL. They may have been located outside of the Core League anyway, because off-planet operations would be cheaper, via cheaper labor, and less restrictive laws, etc. Much of the same reasons American companies choose to seek out foreign soil.

Now, these same Transtellars would continue to be as selfish and self centered as they always were. They no longer owe allegiance to a League they are no longer a part. Plus the SL may no longer wish to trade with seceded planets. That may cause a problem if equipment and resources needed by those Transtellars are manufactured within the Core planets. So what's a Transtellar to do?

Take from the rich and give to the richer. It isn't personal, it's just business. It is not going to continue to be business as usual for the League, across the board.

You have to be careful releasing dangers into the wild. One day those dangers can come back home to roost.

You just have to wonder and ask yourself just how far [SL and Transtellar]-sponsored piracy branched out all over the galaxy.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:54 am

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cthia wrote::lol:

Absolutely. They were the pirates. But, had they fairly recently become the ROOT of piracy? In my original post I included a passage which HoS says the SL also supported Transtellars who operated by piracy. Consider what a huge conglomerate can accomplish here on Earth, if they could operate a department of piracy against it's competition, with the blessing of its own country.

These Transtellars were originally all a part of the SL. With the rampant domino effect of secessions, any particular Transtellar may no longer be a part of the SL. They may have been located outside of the Core League anyway, because off-planet operations would be cheaper, via cheaper labor, and less restrictive laws, etc. Much of the same reasons American companies choose to seek out foreign soil.

Now, these same Transtellars would continue to be as selfish and self centered as they always were. They no longer owe allegiance to a League they are no longer a part. Plus the SL may no longer wish to trade with seceded planets. That may cause a problem if equipment and resources needed by those Transtellars are manufactured within the Core planets. So what's a Transtellar to do?

Take from the rich and give to the richer. It isn't personal, it's just business. It is not going to continue to be business as usual for the League, across the board.

You have to be careful releasing dangers into the wild. One day those dangers can come back home to roost.

You just have to wonder and ask yourself just how far [SL and Transtellar]-sponsored piracy branched out all over the galaxy.
Still the Transtellars weren't supporting piracy for kicks. They weren't even supporting it because the captured loot was a good return on investment. They were supporting it because it let OFS take a system over and then turn around and give the Transtellar a sweetheart monopoly deal that was good return on investment.

Now they don't have the OFS to do the planetary occupation for them. They could still try to do it themselves but that's risky since they don't have the 800 lbs gorilla for backing should their freebootery attract the unfriendly attention of someone with a real navy.

There doesn't seem to be significant upside to even independent transtellar turning lose a wave of undirected piracy across all of space. It's too likely to, sooner or later, come to the attention of Manticore who might decide its best cut off at the head. The return on the piracy isn't likely to be high enough to justify the risk of losing their legitimate business.

That doesn't say that they'll become angels. Just that any piracy or freebooting expeditions they quietly fund will likely be very carefully targeted at systems far enough away from prying eyes that their involvement is unlikely to be noticed. Which in turn means that they won't be driving a widespread outbreak in piracy (probably performing less than when OFS was in play)

Now there will be true warlords and pirates, not backed by transtellars. But the harsh economics of piracy means you need a fairly hospitable environment to make a go of it (even if you steal your pirate ship). Missiles, maintenance, and supplies aren't cheap so you need a way to fence your loot, suppliers and yards willing to work with known or suspected pirates (both of which usually require a system government willing to turn a blind eye) or you end up with a non-functioning ship in pretty short order.
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Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:49 pm

cthia
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Jonathan_S wrote:
cthia wrote::lol:

Absolutely. They were the pirates. But, had they fairly recently become the ROOT of piracy? In my original post I included a passage which HoS says the SL also supported Transtellars who operated by piracy. Consider what a huge conglomerate can accomplish here on Earth, if they could operate a department of piracy against it's competition, with the blessing of its own country.

These Transtellars were originally all a part of the SL. With the rampant domino effect of secessions, any particular Transtellar may no longer be a part of the SL. They may have been located outside of the Core League anyway, because off-planet operations would be cheaper, via cheaper labor, and less restrictive laws, etc. Much of the same reasons American companies choose to seek out foreign soil.

Now, these same Transtellars would continue to be as selfish and self centered as they always were. They no longer owe allegiance to a League they are no longer a part. Plus the SL may no longer wish to trade with seceded planets. That may cause a problem if equipment and resources needed by those Transtellars are manufactured within the Core planets. So what's a Transtellar to do?

Take from the rich and give to the richer. It isn't personal, it's just business. It is not going to continue to be business as usual for the League, across the board.

You have to be careful releasing dangers into the wild. One day those dangers can come back home to roost.

You just have to wonder and ask yourself just how far [SL and Transtellar]-sponsored piracy branched out all over the galaxy.

Still the Transtellars weren't supporting piracy for kicks. They weren't even supporting it because the captured loot was a good return on investment. They were supporting it because it let OFS take a system over and then turn around and give the Transtellar a sweetheart monopoly deal that was good return on investment.

Now they don't have the OFS to do the planetary occupation for them. They could still try to do it themselves but that's risky since they don't have the 800 lbs gorilla for backing should their freebootery attract the unfriendly attention of someone with a real navy.

There doesn't seem to be significant upside to even independent transtellar turning lose a wave of undirected piracy across all of space. It's too likely to, sooner or later, come to the attention of Manticore who might decide its best cut off at the head. The return on the piracy isn't likely to be high enough to justify the risk of losing their legitimate business.

That doesn't say that they'll become angels. Just that any piracy or freebooting expeditions they quietly fund will likely be very carefully targeted at systems far enough away from prying eyes that their involvement is unlikely to be noticed. Which in turn means that they won't be driving a widespread outbreak in piracy (probably performing less than when OFS was in play)

Now there will be true warlords and pirates, not backed by transtellars. But the harsh economics of piracy means you need a fairly hospitable environment to make a go of it (even if you steal your pirate ship). Missiles, maintenance, and supplies aren't cheap so you need a way to fence your loot, suppliers and yards willing to work with known or suspected pirates (both of which usually require a system government willing to turn a blind eye) or you end up with a non-functioning ship in pretty short order.

That's kind of my point. The Transtellars were getting a windfall that has suddenly dried up. They have to operate honestly now in an environment of competition. Competition that is accustomed to operating and turning a profit legally, and probably offering a superior product. The SL - OFS, allowed the Transtellars to corner the market in their respective industries. I just now realized that the Transtellars are in the same position as the Mandarins were. They have to shit or get off the pot. Translated - either fold or make a bold move to continue to exist.

Fencing the loot shouldn't be a problem either, that infrastructure - contacts - should already be in place, and has been for centuries. Only now the Transtellars will be pilfering to remain in business, probably in part to obtain supplies, parts, other resources and contracts that are now drying up.

Ships shouldn't be a problem either, the League is reeling. They got too much on their plate to be able to plug the leak before lots of goods quickly go out the back door. It is the same old song experienced by big businesses who realize that their profits are flowing out the back door of their warehouses, cash registers, vaults, etc., via theft and espionage. So they send in teams to clean house. The word goes around first and rampant theft increases tenfold before the well dries up.

As far as missiles, they don't need Cataphracts if they will be mostly attacking SL freighters now. They're a new prey, naked and vulnerable. I'd be dumbstruck if the Transtellars don't already have a stockpile of missiles, having long seen the writing on the crumbling walls. Or at least solid contacts with a supplier. Like I said, it isn't personal, but why should Transtellars not turn on the very infrastructure which once supported them? There certainly isn't any honor amongst thieves.

Transtellars should have lots of cash having operated for centuries as they did, unencumbered. What could happen is two or more Transtellars could end up merging to stay afloat. Transtellars could become powerful warlords themselves.

The system government willing to turn a blind eye is the local government they've been operating out of for centuries, who've been receiving part of the loot. I've always said there had to be small niches of small-time Mandarins all around the vast SL.

And if they merge, Transtellars could share resources, clients, fences . . .just like any merger.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by cthia   » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:57 am

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Actually, I always wondered if one, if not all, of the Transtellars were MAlign operations. The MA could have been funneling huge sums of money into their coffers. That would have explained where they got a lot of the huge sums of money needed to fund their operations.

I never understood who was bankrolling the MA. Their operations required huge sums of money. Yet they were pretty much isolated from humanity, though one would think they had to have at least traded with humanity. But that would have been extremely dangerous. What gives, they could clone people, but not money.

So who or what funded them. Mesa? All by itself?

And where are they keeping this money? Inside Daddy Det's family vaults, under mattresses, where? They certainly can't be utilizing the banking systems. If so, that is a paper trail.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by tlb   » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:56 am

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cthia wrote:Actually, I always wondered if one, if not all, of the Transtellars were MAlign operations. The MA could have been funneling huge sums of money into their coffers. That would have explained where they got a lot of the huge sums of money needed to fund their operations.

I never understood who was bankrolling the MA. Their operations required huge sums of money. Yet they were pretty much isolated from humanity, though one would think they had to have at least traded with humanity. But that would have been extremely dangerous. What gives, they could clone people, but not money.

So who or what funded them. Mesa? All by itself?

And where are they keeping this money? Inside Daddy Det's family vaults, under mattresses, where? They certainly can't be utilizing the banking systems. If so, that is a paper trail.

I believe that all the transtellar corporations that headquartered on Mesa were Malign controlled and used to fund their operations. They were not isolated from humanity before Houdini, they exerted control from the boardrooms. Since they also controlled the banking system on Mesa, perhaps there are traces to be found; despite the destruction that included banking records.
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Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by cthia   » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:25 am

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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:Actually, I always wondered if one, if not all, of the Transtellars were MAlign operations. The MA could have been funneling huge sums of money into their coffers. That would have explained where they got a lot of the huge sums of money needed to fund their operations.

I never understood who was bankrolling the MA. Their operations required huge sums of money. Yet they were pretty much isolated from humanity, though one would think they had to have at least traded with humanity. But that would have been extremely dangerous. What gives, they could clone people, but not money.

So who or what funded them. Mesa? All by itself?

And where are they keeping this money? Inside Daddy Det's family vaults, under mattresses, where? They certainly can't be utilizing the banking systems. If so, that is a paper trail.

I believe that all the transtellar corporations that headquartered on Mesa were Malign controlled and used to fund their operations. They were not isolated from humanity before Houdini, they exerted control from the boardrooms. Since they also controlled the banking system on Mesa, perhaps there are traces to be found; despite the destruction that included banking records.

Banking systems beget paper trails strewn out all across the galaxy. Huge sums of money either were abandoned in the banking system as a result of Houdini or huge withdrawals should have been the result. "I'll take that in the equivalent of cash please."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by tlb   » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:29 am

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cthia wrote:Actually, I always wondered if one, if not all, of the Transtellars were MAlign operations. The MA could have been funneling huge sums of money into their coffers. That would have explained where they got a lot of the huge sums of money needed to fund their operations.

I never understood who was bankrolling the MA. Their operations required huge sums of money. Yet they were pretty much isolated from humanity, though one would think they had to have at least traded with humanity. But that would have been extremely dangerous. What gives, they could clone people, but not money.

So who or what funded them. Mesa? All by itself?

And where are they keeping this money? Inside Daddy Det's family vaults, under mattresses, where? They certainly can't be utilizing the banking systems. If so, that is a paper trail.

tlb wrote:I believe that all the transtellar corporations that headquartered on Mesa were Malign controlled and used to fund their operations. They were not isolated from humanity before Houdini, they exerted control from the boardrooms. Since they also controlled the banking system on Mesa, perhaps there are traces to be found; despite the destruction that included banking records.

cthia wrote:Banking systems beget paper trails strewn out all across the galaxy. Huge sums of money either were abandoned in the banking system as a result of Houdini or huge withdrawals should have been the result. "I'll take that in the equivalent of cash please."

As we have discussed before, there are paperless equivalents to cash that do not leave a trail; so the only evidence might be in the destroyed computer systems on Mesa.
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