Rincewind wrote:kzt wrote:
The Andies have a rep of being pretty ruthless when needed. It's a velvet glove over that iron fist, but you can located the iron fist if you try hard enough.
What's wrong with Empires?
Yes, the Andermanies have a reputation of being ruthless but they also have a reputation for being efficient & relatively fair. By comparison with the centuries of misrule which the member systems within Silesia have experienced it would probably seem like freedom incarnate. Also you have to look at what the other alternatives would have been.
The People's Republic of Haven had its eyes on the Silesian Systems & they would have pillaged them quite ruthlessly; (Haven's attempted conquest of Manticore was a way to gain access to the Silesian Systems although Manticore was a tempting target in its own right due to its Wormhole Junction). They were also ramshackle & very inefficient so the inhabitants would have been worse off.
Suppose the Solarian League had occupied Silesia? (Ignoring Manticore or the Andermani Empire for arguments sake). Given the way they exploited the Protectorates they would have been just as brutal and ruthless, but a lot less honest. Corruption would have endemic & the locals would have been frozen out. At least the Empire was noted for its honesty & they were also acknowledged as having improved the lot of their citizens in all those systems they took over.
There is also the belief that a democratic system is the ideal. It may well be but you have to have a tradition of political involvement by the population for it to work. In the case of Silesia a strong rulership would probably be preferred because then everybody would at least know where they stood.
Thoughts anyone?
I alluded to my own
prejudices regarding Empires in a previous post. Can you name an Empire that didn't foster some sort of resentment and ill will? A type of government associated with the brewing of a Genghis Khan?
Let's see. There was:
10) The Akkadian Empire (2334 BC to 2083 BC) was an empire centered in the city of Akkad and its surrounding region (in Ancient Iraq). The Akkadian state was the predecessor of the ethnic Akkadian states of Babylonia and Assyria; formed following centuries of Akkadian cultural synergy with others, it reached the height of its power between the 24th and 22nd centuries BC following the conquests of king Sargon of Akkad, and is sometimes regarded as the first manifestation of an empire in history.
9) The Achaemenid Empire (ca. 550–330 BC), also known as the Persian Empire , was the successor state of the Median Empire, ruling over significant portions of what would become Greater Iran.
8) The Roman Empire.7) Umayyad Caliphate (661–750) A caliphate is the Islamic form of government representing the political unity and leadership of the Muslim world. The Caliph’s position is based on the notion of a successor to Muhammad’s political authority. According to Sunnis, a Caliph can be any pious Muslim who is elected by the Muslims or their representatives; and according to Shia Islam, an Imam descended in a line from the Ahl al-Bayt.
6) Qing Dynasty (1890–1912), The Qing Dynasty was the last ruling dynasty of China, ruling from 1644 to 1912 (with a brief, abortive restoration in 1917). It was preceded by the Ming Dynasty and followed by the Republic of China. The dynasty was founded by the Manchu clan Aisin Gioro in what is today northeast China, (also known as Manchuria). Starting in 1644 it expanded into China proper and its surrounding territories, establishing the Empire of the Great Qing. Complete pacification of China was accomplished around 1683.The Qing Dynasty was overthrown following the Xinhai Revolution, when the Empress Dowager Longyu abdicated on behalf of the last emperor, Puyi, on February 12, 1912.
5) Russian Empire (1721–1917), The Russian Empire was a state that existed from 1721 until the Russian Revolution of 1917. It was the successor to the Tsardom of Russia, and the predecessor of the Soviet Union. At one point in 1866, it stretched from eastern Europe, across Asia, and into North America. At the beginning of the 19th century, Russia was the largest country in the world, extending from the Arctic Ocean to the north to the Black Sea on the south, from the Baltic Sea on the west to the Pacific Ocean on the east.
⦁ It was the second largest contiguous empire the world has ever seen, surpassed only by the Mongol Empire, and the third largest empire the world has ever seen, surpassed only by the British Empire and the Mongol Empire .
⦁ The household servants or dependents attached to the personal service were merely set free, while the landed peasants received their houses and orchards, and allotments of arable land.
4) Mongol Empire (1206–1368), The Mongol Empire was an empire from the 13th and 14th century spanning from Eastern Europe across Asia. It emerged from the unification of Mongol and Turkic tribes in modern day Mongolia, and grew through invasions, after Genghis Khan had been proclaimed ruler of all Mongols in 1206.
3) Mughal Empire (1526–1858) The Mughal Empire was an Islamic imperial power that ruled a large portion of Indian subcontinent which began in 1526, invaded and ruled most of South Asia by the late 17th and early 18th centuries, and ended in the mid-19th century.The Mughal Emperors were descendants of the Timurids of Turkistan, and at the height of their power around 1700, they controlled most of the Indian Subcontinent—extending from Bengal in the east to Balochistan in the west, Kashmir in the north to the Kaveri basin in the south. Its population at that time has been estimated as between 110 and 130 million, over a territory of over 4 million sq. km (1.5 million sq. mi.).The “classic period” of the Empire started in 1556 with the accession of Jalaluddin Mohammad Akbar, better known as Akbar the Great. It ended with the death of Emperor Aurangzeb in 1707, although the Empire continued for another 150 years.
2) British Empire, The British Empire comprised the dominions, colonies, protectorates, mandates, and other territories ruled or administered by the United Kingdom, that had originated with the overseas colonies and trading posts established by England in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. At its height it was the largest empire in history and, for over a century, was the foremost global power. By 1922, the British Empire held sway over a population of about 458 million people, one-quarter of the world’s population at the time, and covered more than 13,000,000 square miles (33,670,000 km2): approximately a quarter of the Earth’s total land area. As a result, its political, linguistic and cultural legacy is widespread. At the peak of its power, it was often said that “the sun never sets on the British Empire” because its span across the globe ensured that the sun was always shining on at least one of its numerous territories.
1) Ottoman Empire (1299–1923), The Ottoman Empire also known by its contemporaries as the Turkish Empire. was an Islamic empire that lasted from 1299 to November 1, July 24, 1923 It was succeeded by the Republic of Turkey, which was officially proclaimed on October 29, 1923. At the height of its power (16th–17th centuries), the empire spanned three continents, controlling much of Western Asia, Eastern and Southeastern Europe, the Caucasus, and North Africa. The Ottoman Empire contained 29 provinces and numerous vassal states, some of which were later absorbed into the empire, while others gained various types of autonomy during the course of centuries.
Any questions?
:shrugs and scratches head&arse:Don't even get me started on Imperial Japan!
Throughout the series, word of mouth had carried throughout sectors of the forthrightness of Manticore. Her exalted ideals... morals, scruples and values had preceded her. Every down-trodden polity had heard of her -- of Manticore. I never heard any of the same regarding the Andies. In fact, I got the impression that the Andies were as expansionist as Haven. And, as another poster has focused my thoughts, just as ruthless.
