Mesan Alignment colony ship.

Well said W.H.

I hadn't thought about it until recently, and I'm not diving into the historical origins of the group I'm going to mention towards the end of this post, etc. but really, the MAlign aren't pioneers of anything. Even their weapons are substandard compared to the new stuff from Haven and Manticore.

The MAlign haven't come up with really anything substantially new except variations on propulsion. Both the streak and spider drives are grossly overpowered "gravitic" impelled vehicles with two different variations, one for speed, one for stealth.

Their genetic engineering is a descendant of Beowulfan origins, the Detweiler's simply decided "we don't have to obey any rules except our own" which over time became "we're better than you so we deserve the right to run everything. They're the the human/galactic equivalent of the fictional versions of the "Illuminati", and that's about it.

Relative to this thread, that's not the metal that colonies and colonists are made of.

SharkHunter wrote:
The MAlign haven't come up with really anything substantially new except variations on propulsion. Both the streak and spider drives are grossly overpowered "gravitic" impelled vehicles with two different variations, one for speed, one for stealth.

I know this is true for the spider, but do we know this about the sreak? I was under the impression that the streaks were basicly larger hyper drives...

Don

Actually, that was kinda my point. If they had gone about conquering the galaxy in a smart way, they'd have done it by using the advantages their genetic engineering provides where colonization is concerned. But they didn't. I was just exploring what those advantages could do in colonization.



Of course, if they see their defeat coming down the line, they might send out a few such ships. And four hundred years down the line, we'll be having another war.

SharkHunter wrote:Well said W.H.

I hadn't thought about it until recently, and I'm not diving into the historical origins of the group I'm going to mention towards the end of this post, etc. but really, the MAlign aren't pioneers of anything. Even their weapons are substandard compared to the new stuff from Haven and Manticore.

The MAlign haven't come up with really anything substantially new except variations on propulsion. Both the streak and spider drives are grossly overpowered "gravitic" impelled vehicles with two different variations, one for speed, one for stealth.

That grossly understates the accomplishments of both the streak and spider drives. Yes, you could say that the streak drive is just an oversized hyper generator, but that is a big simplification. People had been trying to break the iota barrier for centuries and failed. The streak drive is no small achievement.

And the spider drive is NOT just a grossly overpowered gravitic impelled vehicle. David has described is as akin to massively powerful tractors attaching to the hyper wall, but that is obviously a massive simplification. Since there is no mass there for a true tractor to grab, something more is clearly going on. It can't be an ordinary tractor beam. The spider drive is a revolutionary invention, unlike any previous space drive.

--snipping--

SWM wrote:That grossly understates the accomplishments of both the streak and spider drives. Yes, you could say that the streak drive is just an oversized hyper generator, but that is a big simplification. People had been trying to break the iota barrier for centuries and failed. The streak drive is no small achievement.

And the spider drive is NOT just a grossly overpowered gravitic impelled vehicle. David has described is as akin to massively powerful tractors attaching to the hyper wall, but that is obviously a massive simplification. Since there is no mass there for a true tractor to grab, something more is clearly going on. It can't be an ordinary tractor beam. The spider drive is a revolutionary invention, unlike any previous space drive.

40/40 agreement, 20% indecision. Given that MWW used the description of them as "tractors" are a gravitic device, I'd stand by my statement, but certainly their usage is revolutionary -- likely as much so as the SR-71's usage of the concept of a jet engine comparing to a late '30's/early '40's jet. It's how the vessels are propelled that is revolutionary, and needless to say "quiet". However, their emissions signature would have showed up as "something gravitic going on" as described by David had the ships moved within nearby sensor range of a PD192X ship:

Mission of Honor wrote:...Even the Spider had a footprint, after all, even if it wasn't something anyone else would have associated with a drive system. All it would take was for someone to notice an anomalous reading and be conscientious enough—or, for that matter, bored enough—to spend a little time trying to figure out what it was.

And the fact that the Spider's signature flares as it comes up only makes that more likely, he reflected. The odds against anyone spotting it would still be enormous, but even so, they'd be a hell of a lot worse than the chance of anyone aboard Bogey Two noticing us if we just keep quietly coasting along.

My disagreement was not with the characterization of the spider drive as "something gravitic." It was the characterization of the spider drive as not being "substantially new except variations on propulsion". It is not merely a variation on existing propulsion systems. It is radically different from any previous technology. Labeling the spider drive as "grossly overpowered "gravitic" impelled vehicles" glosses over the completely innovative nature of the drive. You were saying that the Mesan Alignment had not come up with anything new, and I strongly disagree.

SharkHunter wrote:40/40 agreement, 20% indecision. Given that MWW used the description of them as "tractors" are a gravitic device, I'd stand by my statement, but certainly their usage is revolutionary -- likely as much so as the SR-71's usage of the concept of a jet engine comparing to a late '30's/early '40's jet. It's how the vessels are propelled that is revolutionary, and needless to say "quiet". However, their emissions signature would have showed up as "something gravitic going on" as described by David had the ships moved within nearby sensor range of a PD192X ship:

I think SWM does have a point here. The descriptions of both the streak and the spider have to be massively over simplified. I know I have always wondered what along with the bigger hyperdrives allowed the streak to survive in the higher hyperbands.

With the spider, I'm thinking that if what the spider is doing is grabbing the hyperwall, there must be a disturbance of the hyperwall there to detect once you know to look.

Don

I have NOT read the many excellent answers sosss if I repeat stuff ... opps. Sorry. Mesa probably has spent a lot of time and effort creating "bolt holes" for lots of folks who really do not want to meet the "justice" coming after them.

This would include multiple "cut out identies" for many top bad Mesan (sp?) leaders along with possible and practical colony planets way way out beyond known space for the underlings? This might include many colony ships.

For all we know as readers and fans, Mesa might already has spent years finding some remote, unknown, very suitable planets for human colonization. We might also find that Mesa already has the transport ships ready to go in hiding.

Good planets are hard and expensive to find. But ... Mesa might have that money to do so. They might already have spent hundreds of years terra forming lots of potential planets. There "bug out" plans are probably very extensive.

HB of CJ (Junior Captain)

HB of CJ wrote:... and practical colony planets way way out beyond known space for the underlings? This might include many colony ships.

...

Except the rushed version of Houdini didn't show much consideration for "underlings" -- something about pinging nano-bots periodically to reset the suicide timer?

HB of CJ wrote:I have NOT read the many excellent answers sosss if I repeat stuff ... opps. Sorry. Mesa probably has spent a lot of time and effort creating "bolt holes" for lots of folks who really do not want to meet the "justice" coming after them.

This would include multiple "cut out identies" for many top bad Mesan (sp?) leaders along with possible and practical colony planets way way out beyond known space for the underlings? This might include many colony ships.

For all we know as readers and fans, Mesa might already has spent years finding some remote, unknown, very suitable planets for human colonization. We might also find that Mesa already has the transport ships ready to go in hiding.

Good planets are hard and expensive to find. But ... Mesa might have that money to do so. They might already have spent hundreds of years terra forming lots of potential planets. There "bug out" plans are probably very extensive.

HB of CJ (Junior Captain)

The text suggests that Darius is both the bolthole for top Mesan leaders and the remote, unknown, suitable planet for human colonization that you are suggesting.

Belial666 is suggesting that the Alignment should have established numerous distant colonies with a view to creating a population comparable in size to the rest of the galaxy, already committed to their cause, so that when they re-integrate with the rest of humanity they would automatically dominate the political question of genetic uplift.