Honorverse ramblings and musings

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:What happens when polities under Andermani rule want to opt out and join Manticore? Like... all of them! They'll want to. They will. Secession has sparked many a powder keg.

Life, she is hard.

I doubt most former Silesian would give a wet slap about whether to be an Andi or a Manty. All they probably care about the fact that they finally have a honest, efficient government and crime has taken a dramatic nose dive over the past couple of years.

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:What happens when polities under Andermani rule want to opt out and join Manticore? Like... all of them! They'll want to. They will. Secession has sparked many a powder keg.

Life, she is hard.

saber964 wrote:I doubt most former Silesian would give a wet slap about whether to be an Andi or a Manty. All they probably care about the fact that they finally have a honest, efficient government and crime has taken a dramatic nose dive over the past couple of years.

Maybe. Maybe not. Probably most certainly not if they compare their current life with the Andermani against what it once was before the split.

But humankind is, well... human. And we want it all. What will their state of mind be when they begin to compare life as an Andermani to their friends, families and relatives across the demarcation line?

Also, life under an Emperor may be less desirable for some, as life under a corrupt government - yet still free.

cthia wrote:What happens when polities under Andermani rule want to opt out and join Manticore? Like... all of them! They'll want to. They will. Secession has sparked many a powder keg.

Why do you think that? They are a fairly enlightened star nation, with a good economy, reasonable prosperity for the great majority of it's population, growing constantly, respected by other nations. What makes you think the Sillies will prefer to be Manticoran rather than Andermani? What exactly do you think is wrong with the Anderman Empire?

The Andies have a rep of being pretty ruthless when needed. It's a velvet glove over that iron fist, but you can located the iron fist if you try hard enough.

kzt wrote:The Andies have a rep of being pretty ruthless when needed. It's a velvet glove over that iron fist, but you can located the iron fist if you try hard enough.

But one advantage is you always know where the iron hand is. Governments with strong monarchs tend to be very stable long term - the major policies of the administration do not change every election, and tend to be stable (or change gradually) over a reign without a strong impetus for change.

Manticore's relatively weak constitutional monarchy has similar to our system in being very vulnerable to constant changes in policy where everything is concerned. Taxes go up and down - the navy runs convoys or the navy is pulled back out of a region. with every election, almost anything can change.

That disarray, especially in foreign policy, can be very problematic.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:What happens when polities under Andermani rule want to opt out and join Manticore? Like... all of them! They'll want to. They will. Secession has sparked many a powder keg.

Why do you think that? They are a fairly enlightened star nation, with a good economy, reasonable prosperity for the great majority of it's population, growing constantly, respected by other nations. What makes you think the Sillies will prefer to be Manticoran rather than Andermani? What exactly do you think is wrong with the Anderman Empire?

Taken as an isolated comparison. Nothing. Though I do wish I knew more of the Andermani practice of an Emperor. How close is it to Imperial Japan, where the Emperor didn't really seem to have too much power.

But taken as a whole, what I see wrong with the Anderman Empire re their half of the Silesian Purchase is that it is not Manticoran.

We are considering a space-faring species. And it is conceivable that families, friends, acquaintances, etc. are spread out over all of Silesia. My prejudices against an Empire are all I know from Imperial Japan. Quite different from what most Silesians are accustomed to now. Aside from the corruption -- which if you'll remember was part and parcel of Imperial Japan as well.

Manticore is a very rich sector and I suspect the standard of living is much higher than anywhere else. And I also expect that the cost of living to be significantly lower in Manticore.

You and I see things on paper and can too easily overlook unacceptable conditions of living under an Emperor. And not just an Emperor -- but the rules of his government - to anyone not accustomed to such conditions by birth.

kzt wrote:The Andies have a rep of being pretty ruthless when needed. It's a velvet glove over that iron fist, but you can located the iron fist if you try hard enough.

Sorry, I missed your post. I was thinking more of a very strict government than ruthless. Though yours is probably more... descriptive. Undoubtedly.

In fact, now that I think about it, there were times that I came to think of life in the Empire to not be too far removed from life under Saint Just-Pierre, from background chatter of officers aboard their ships. At least as it translates for the officers of their navy.

Then my point, of course, resolves itself into one of being born under Empirical rule and knowing no other vs. being traded into it after knowing another more... traditional form of government.

The Siliesians are going to rebel against the Andermani Emperor and rally against the dastardly forces of imperialism in order to... join the Manticoran Emprire with their own Empress? Meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

The Andermani Empire is hardly a brutal, repressive regime. It enjoys a good standard of living, certainly better than anything the Silesians had. There's social mobility instead of stratification. While Andermani Emperors may be quirky, neither are they brutal dictators, and do have some checks on their powers.

And the wealth that Manticore enjoys is specifically noted to be Manticore's. No one in, say, the Talbott quadrant, expects to enjoy the same wealth as the Old Star Kingdom, because the Junction is a one-of-a-kind deal. What they do expect is a standard of living substantially better than what they had before. That's why they agreed in the first place. Since the Andermani cran provide pretty much the same standard of living, they have no reason to rebel.

Duckk wrote:The Siliesians are going to rebel against the Andermani Emperor and rally against the dastardly forces of imperialism in order to... join the Manticoran Emprire with their own Empress? Meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

The Andermani Empire is hardly a brutal, repressive regime. It enjoys a good standard of living, certainly better than anything the Silesians had. There's social mobility instead of stratification. While Andermani Emperors may be quirky, neither are they brutal dictators, and do have some checks on their powers.

And the wealth that Manticore enjoys is specifically noted to be Manticore's. No one in, say, the Talbott quadrant, expects to enjoy the same wealth as the Old Star Kingdom, because the Junction is a one-of-a-kind deal. What they do expect is a standard of living substantially better than what they had before. That's why they agreed in the first place. Since the Andermani cran provide pretty much the same standard of living, they have no reason to rebel.

Plus in the short term the Andies are not involved in a naval war with the largest Navy in space.

Sure Silesia is a long way from the League. And sure we all know exactly how badly the SLN is outclassed by the GA. But I'm not sure the average Silesian on the ground is that clued in. And while Sarnow has some ships to provide defense, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some nervousness in Her Majesty's newest protectorates about raids into the SEM's less defended areas (read Silesia). Being on the other side of the partition you're not so much at risk for that, you're still well protected thanks to the 3rd or 4th most powerful navy in space, the IAN, and you're probably not getting as high a tax rate (since the Andies don't have to pay to rebuild their main industrial infrastructure plus shipyards; while their foreign trade simultaneously just took a huge hit)

It doesn't look all bad from their side of Silesia...

[edited because I somehow left the "not" out of "Andies are not involved in a naval war"]

As for families split on different sides of the partition, I'm confident that there are opportunities for immigration. Neither the Andermani nor the Manticorans have closed borders, and right now they are treaty allies. If people want to move, they can.