Honorverse ramblings and musings

Theemile wrote:

munroburton wrote:Since Saltash has come up quite a few times recently in threads on here, I thought I'd ask for opinions on why Adm Gold Peak didn't send one or two Sag-Cs instead of the five Rolands she did to Saltash.

Even if she had good justification for not expecting them to run into 4 BCs, the Sollies had interned those Manty freighters. Didn't she think marines might be useful? It also seems like the sort of flag-showing mission cruisers are famously sent on.

I think she was intentionally low-keying the event. This had all the trapping of what may become an international incident (Like there wasn't escallations already), but sending some destroyers to handle it "routinely" doesn't add fuel to the fire and seem as high handed. Sending 5 of the destroyers sends the message, "I'm concerned about this enough to send 5 where 1 could do", but not in the way acouple BCs say "Give me what I want or I own your orbitals".

Mike's politially savy enough to know the difference in message force levels give, and she was attempting to show strength without escallation.

n7axw wrote:

Theemile wrote:I think she was intentionally low-keying the event. This had all the trapping of what may become an international incident (Like there wasn't escallations already), but sending some destroyers to handle it "routinely" doesn't add fuel to the fire and seem as high handed. Sending 5 of the destroyers sends the message, "I'm concerned about this enough to send 5 where 1 could do", but not in the way acouple BCs say "Give me what I want or I own your orbitals".

Mike's politially savy enough to know the difference in message force levels give, and she was attempting to show strength without escallation.

Showing strength without escalation? Sort of wasted subtlty on an OFS governor. That poor guy didn't even understand smash mouth!

Don

Theemile wrote:

munroburton wrote:Since Saltash has come up quite a few times recently in threads on here, I thought I'd ask for opinions on why Adm Gold Peak didn't send one or two Sag-Cs instead of the five Rolands she did to Saltash.

Even if she had good justification for not expecting them to run into 4 BCs, the Sollies had interned those Manty freighters. Didn't she think marines might be useful? It also seems like the sort of flag-showing mission cruisers are famously sent on.

I think she was intentionally low-keying the event. This had all the trapping of what may become an international incident (Like there wasn't escallations already), but sending some destroyers to handle it "routinely" doesn't add fuel to the fire and seem as high handed. Sending 5 of the destroyers sends the message, "I'm concerned about this enough to send 5 where 1 could do", but not in the way acouple BCs say "Give me what I want or I own your orbitals".

Mike's politially savy enough to know the difference in message force levels give, and she was attempting to show strength without escallation.

JeffEngel wrote:But more importantly, there's the League in general, both the government and the general public. The League sees what Manticoran destroyers can do (and, in the event, learns that they outmatch SLN battlecruisers by a wide margin) and that Manticore will respond to this sort of local mischief just the way it would in (e.g.) old Silesia with just the same results.

Shadow of Freedom, Chapter 21 wrote:Several heads nodded. DesRon 301 had rejoined Tenth Fleet at Montana a month ago, and if one or two of Michelle’s more senior officers could have wished for a less spectacular resolution of the problem, none of them had questioned Zavala’s actions given the situation he’d discovered.

Vince wrote:The Saltash Incident began and was over with before Terekhov was sent off to Mobius.

Timeline in Shadow of Freedom:

Chapter 8: Report of Manticoran freighters held at Saltash, DesRon 301 sent to Saltash
Chapter 10: DesRon 301 arrived Saltash
Chapter 16: DesRon 301 completed operations at Saltash

Chapter 21: Henke learns of peace and alliance between Manticore & Haven,

Shadow of Freedom, Chapter 21 wrote:Several heads nodded. DesRon 301 had rejoined Tenth Fleet at Montana a month ago, and if one or two of Michelle’s more senior officers could have wished for a less spectacular resolution of the problem, none of them had questioned Zavala’s actions given the situation he’d discovered.

Boldface is my emphasis.

Chapter 24: First indications of problems at Mobius
Chapter 26: Terekhov sent to Mobius

cthia wrote:I always wondered what happens to civilian vessels caught in-system when a surprise attack comes hypering in.

Is there like a neutral zone in each system? I wouldn't want to be caught between two opponents, missiles flying, ships and fleets maneuvering.

What is the proper protocol?

cthia wrote:

cthia wrote:I always wondered what happens to civilian vessels caught in-system when a surprise attack comes hypering in.

Is there like a neutral zone in each system? I wouldn't want to be caught between two opponents, missiles flying, ships and fleets maneuvering.

What is the proper protocol?

A related afterthought.

The memorable passage of Abigail standing on a balcony watching pinpricks of light during Honor's defense of Grayson always drew a hmm from me.

It seems that civil defense sirens would be blaring all over each city and underground shelters would be a norm. Orbital debris you see, at least.

The Honor of the Queen, Chapter 34 wrote:“He’s changing course, Skipper.”
Honor looked up quickly at Cardones’ report, and her blood ran cold. Saladin’s captain had made up his mind. He was no longer maneuvering against Fearless; instead, he’d shaped his course directly for Grayson, and his challenge was obvious.
She sat very still for a moment, mind racing as she tried to find an answer, but there was none, and she cleared her throat.
“Put me through to Commander Higgins, Mark,” she said quietly.
“Yes, Ma’am,” Brentworth replied. There was a brief pause, then a strained voice spoke over her intercom.
“Higgins,” it said.
“James, this is the Captain. How much longer on those control runs?”
“Another ten minutes, Ma’am. Maybe a bit less.”
“I need them now,” Honor told him flatly. “Saladin is coming back.”
There was a moment of silence, and the chief engineer’s voice was equally flat when he replied. “Understood, Ma’am. I’ll do what I can.”
Honor turned her chair to face Stephen DuMorne.
“Assume we get our remaining after impellers back in ten minutes. Where can we intercept Saladin?”
She felt her bridge crew flinch at the word “intercept,” but DuMorne only bent over his console, then looked back up at her.
“On that basis, we can make a zero-range intercept one-five-two million klicks short of the planet in just over one-five-seven minutes, Ma’am. Velocity at intercept will be two-six-zero-six-eight KPS.” He cleared his throat. “We’ll enter missile range eleven minutes before intercept.”

cthia wrote:

cthia wrote:I always wondered what happens to civilian vessels caught in-system when a surprise attack comes hypering in.

Is there like a neutral zone in each system? I wouldn't want to be caught between two opponents, missiles flying, ships and fleets maneuvering.

What is the proper protocol?

A related afterthought.

The memorable passage of Abigail standing on a balcony watching pinpricks of light during Honor's defense of Grayson always drew a hmm from me.

It seems that civil defense sirens would be blaring all over each city and underground shelters would be a norm. Orbital debris you see, at least.

Vince wrote:2nd Yeltsin took place light minutes away from Grayson, even when Thunder of God was closest to the planet at the end of the battle where it was destroyed. Most of the battle was much farther away.

There was considerable discussion on the forums as to whether Abigail could even see the nuclear warheads detonating with the naked eye. As I recall, the consensus was she could, if only barely.

Even when Thunder of God (Saladin) went straight for Grayson at the end of the maneuvering for position during the battle, Fearless was able to intercept well short of the planet.

The Honor of the Queen, Chapter 34 wrote:“He’s changing course, Skipper.”
Honor looked up quickly at Cardones’ report, and her blood ran cold. Saladin’s captain had made up his mind. He was no longer maneuvering against Fearless; instead, he’d shaped his course directly for Grayson, and his challenge was obvious.
She sat very still for a moment, mind racing as she tried to find an answer, but there was none, and she cleared her throat.
“Put me through to Commander Higgins, Mark,” she said quietly.
“Yes, Ma’am,” Brentworth replied. There was a brief pause, then a strained voice spoke over her intercom.
“Higgins,” it said.
“James, this is the Captain. How much longer on those control runs?”
“Another ten minutes, Ma’am. Maybe a bit less.”
“I need them now,” Honor told him flatly. “Saladin is coming back.”
There was a moment of silence, and the chief engineer’s voice was equally flat when he replied. “Understood, Ma’am. I’ll do what I can.”
Honor turned her chair to face Stephen DuMorne.
“Assume we get our remaining after impellers back in ten minutes. Where can we intercept Saladin?”
She felt her bridge crew flinch at the word “intercept,” but DuMorne only bent over his console, then looked back up at her.
“On that basis, we can make a zero-range intercept one-five-two million klicks short of the planet in just over one-five-seven minutes, Ma’am. Velocity at intercept will be two-six-zero-six-eight KPS.” He cleared his throat. “We’ll enter missile range eleven minutes before intercept.”

Italics are the author's, boldface is my emphasis.

152,000,000 kilometers ~= 507 light seconds (8 light minutes and 27 seconds)