Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:...But since we're on this subject...I always thought it criminal for Janacek to place an officer of White Haven's and Harrington's calibre on half-pay status during wartime. Even the Havenites made a remark about not believing the RMN would beach White Haven and Harrington. Talk about sleeping with the enemy, hell Janacek acted more like he was a Malign operative!

While Janacek is hardly a paragon of virtue, there is no indication he wasn't a loyal Manticorian--just one who loyalties ran toward his 'class' and that his scope of mind never broadened beyond his earliest conclusions (which is true of many of our own opinions, I think)/
He simply wanted people that shared 'his' opinion of how things should be in power around him.

He chose....poorly.

It also bemused me that the Queen's hands are tied in those matters. She's the Queen for gosh sakes! I just found it ironic and rather interesting that she doesn't enjoy the same level of power as Protector Benjamin. Sometimes, storyline made me feel like Elizabeth was nothing more than a figurehead.

The books make it clear that Elizabeth is a constitutional Monarch and never had the power the Protectors could exercise (which remember, they lost to the Steadholders and only regained with Benjamin). Just like U.S. Presidents, things get done with back-slapping (and arm-twisting, sometimes with the same motion) and that is true in almost any functional 'free' country. For that matter, even most dictators have other power groups that they must consider and consult with (Hitler, at least early on, worked closely with the Big Industrialists while consolidating his power).

So not to unusual IMHO.

You know, that half-pay status crap always made me consider the possibility of that happening to the US. Could our best Naval officer be beached in the middle of an important war, for something just as politically poignant?

I was always under the impression that half-pay was mostly used during times of peace as the number of ships were reduced and the number of Captains and Admirals needed also declined--but no doubt political influence was also involved (the Hornblower novels mention this).

And I don't believe (but am willing to be corrected) that the U.S. Navy didn't use 'half-pay' status (mostly because our Navy was rather small for our nation's size until the 1890's and then subsequently T.R.'s "Great White Fleet", so there were fewer Captains and Admirals in the first place.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Hutch wrote:

cthia wrote:...But since we're on this subject...I always thought it criminal for Janacek to place an officer of White Haven's and Harrington's calibre on half-pay status during wartime. Even the Havenites made a remark about not believing the RMN would beach White Haven and Harrington. Talk about sleeping with the enemy, hell Janacek acted more like he was a Malign operative!

While Janacek is hardly a paragon of virtue, there is no indication he wasn't a loyal Manticorian--just one who loyalties ran toward his 'class' and that his scope of mind never broadened beyond his earliest conclusions (which is true of many of our own opinions, I think)/
He simply wanted people that shared 'his' opinion of how things should be in power around him.

He chose....poorly.

It also bemused me that the Queen's hands are tied in those matters. She's the Queen for gosh sakes! I just found it ironic and rather interesting that she doesn't enjoy the same level of power as Protector Benjamin. Sometimes, storyline made me feel like Elizabeth was nothing more than a figurehead.

The books make it clear that Elizabeth is a constitutional Monarch and never had the power the Protectors could exercise (which remember, they lost to the Steadholders and only regained with Benjamin). Just like U.S. Presidents, things get done with back-slapping (and arm-twisting, sometimes with the same motion) and that is true in almost any functional 'free' country. For that matter, even most dictators have other power groups that they must consider and consult with (Hitler, at least early on, worked closely with the Big Industrialists while consolidating his power).

So not to unusual IMHO.

You know, that half-pay status crap always made me consider the possibility of that happening to the US. Could our best Naval officer be beached in the middle of an important war, for something just as politically poignant?

I was always under the impression that half-pay was mostly used during times of peace as the number of ships were reduced and the number of Captains and Admirals needed also declined--but no doubt political influence was also involved (the Hornblower novels mention this).

And I don't believe (but am willing to be corrected) that the U.S. Navy used 'half-pay' status (mostly because our Navy was rather small for our nation's size until the 1890's and then subsequently T.R.'s "Great White Fleet", so there were fewer Captains and Admirals in the first place.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

I always liked your slant on things Hutch. Of course everything you just said only makes me echo Honor (npi)...I don't like politics. My sister loves politics so much that my niece and I tease her that if someone ever created a Politics board game, she'd quit her career to stay at home to constantly play it!

Janacek surrounded himself with todies, yes men and sycophants. So he never heard, until his CNO bailed, anything from any of his advisers or senior officers that didn't support his stated ideas of how things worked. And by that point things were irreversible.

This isn't that uncommon in real life. For example, the loss of Mosul to ISIS two days ago doesn't exactly match the USG pronouncements that al Qaeda is a spent and dying force, which is part of the foundation concepts that has guided the US foreign policy for the last few years.

kzt wrote:Janacek surrounded himself with todies, yes men and sycophants. So he never heard, until his CNO bailed, anything from any of his advisers or senior officers that didn't support his stated ideas of how things worked. And by that point things were irreversible.

This isn't that uncommon in real life. For example, the loss of Mosul to ISIS two days ago doesn't exactly match the USG pronouncements that al Qaeda is a spent and dying force, which is part of the foundation concepts that has guided the US foreign policy for the last few years.

Janacek was a pure jackass, plain and simple. On both of his terms White Haven was placed on half-pay?! Oh...for the love of...!

Politics shouldn't be so broken that such a petty jackass can find himself running the Navy, in a time of peace, much less war. Twice!

Of course, to be fair to him, it was obvious he suffered a serious head injury from sports.

cthia wrote:You know, that half-pay status crap always made me consider the possibility of that happening to the US. Could our best Naval officer be beached in the middle of an important war, for something just as politically poignant?

Don't know about our Navy, but General MacArthur was rather famously fired by President Truman during the Korean War.

Being wrong about the changes of China intervening and then disputes about how to prosecute the war. (MacArthur wanted to nuke China plus pull the Chinese Nationalist government in Taiwan into it. Truman vetoed that; forcefully)

MacArthur was very popular and Truman's action wasn't; at least at the time. But I don't know if something similar could happen for purely personal dislikes or domestic politics.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:You know, that half-pay status crap always made me consider the possibility of that happening to the US. Could our best Naval officer be beached in the middle of an important war, for something just as politically poignant?

Don't know about our Navy, but General MacArthur was rather famously fired by President Truman during the Korean War.

Being wrong about the changes of China intervening and then disputes about how to prosecute the war. (MacArthur wanted to nuke China plus pull the Chinese Nationalist government in Taiwan into it. Truman vetoed that; forcefully)

MacArthur was very popular and Truman's action wasn't; at least at the time. But I don't know if something similar could happen for purely personal dislikes or domestic politics.

Thanks for the filler Johnathan. I knew that he was fired, I heard my sister and some of her 'politicos' friends discussing something once when it came up. She said that MacArthur didn't respect the President and in many ways acted as if he was the President. Of course that was all topical ointment. I didn't remain anywhere near that discussion to hear her out. They discuss politics for hours!

cthia wrote:I always liked your slant on things Hutch. Of course everything you just said only makes me echo Honor (npi)...I don't like politics. My sister loves politics so much that my niece and I tease her that if someone ever created a Politics board game, she'd quit her career to stay at home to constantly play it!

(Bolding mine)

Cthia,

Diplomacy.

Be warned, this game can lead to multi-generational feuds...

Michael Everett wrote:

cthia wrote:I always liked your slant on things Hutch. Of course everything you just said only makes me echo Honor (npi)...I don't like politics. My sister loves politics so much that my niece and I tease her that if someone ever created a Politics board game, she'd quit her career to stay at home to constantly play it!

(Bolding mine)

Cthia,

Diplomacy.

Be warned, this game can lead to multi-generational feuds...

Oh my! I emailed this post to my niece and she was on my mobile within minutes. We are both like

You have no idea what you have just done Michael. What to get the woman who has everything, she has a birthday coming up. Thank you Thank you Thank you. My niece says that we should process your footnote as a warning to remove all of the weapons from the house before she and her friends play it. That's how passionate some of their discussions get. Michael, Thank You. Again!

Incredible!

Eloise Pritchart is stated to have dark skin, with platinum blonde hair and topaz eyes. I apologize, but every time I read Ellie's ( Giscard's intimate name for her (sigh)), I melt. If you look up exotic in the encyclopedia you may see her pic.

But I find it to be rather ironic that her treecat name is Truth Seeker when she is such a consummate liar. Respectfully. She lied so convincingly to the Committee of Public Safety that she thoroughly convinced them that she had repudiated the Aprilist movement. She convinced them that she was loyal to them. Simultaneously while completely hiding her relationship and feelings for Giscard. Politics, she was born for. How can a woman so sweet pretend to be a cold dispassionate fan of State Sec?

Did Giscard have a treecat name?

cthia wrote:Eloise Pritchart is stated to have dark skin, with platinum blonde hair and topaz eyes. I apologize, but every time I read Ellie's ( Giscard's intimate name for her (sigh)), I melt. If you look up exotic in the encyclopedia you may see her pic.

But I find it to be rather ironic that her treecat name is Truth Seeker when she is such a consummate liar. Respectfully. She lied so convincingly to the Committee of Public Safety that she thoroughly convinced them that she had repudiated the Aprilist movement. She convinced them that she was loyal to them. Simultaneously while completely hiding her relationship and feelings for Giscard. Politics, she was born for. How can a woman so sweet pretend to be a cold dispassionate fan of State Sec?

Did Giscard have a treecat name?

Because she may be sweet, but she is far from tender -- and she has no problem playing a part if it gets her what she wants. Sweet, yes; soft, never. She did what had to be done because she knew she was doing it for a greater good, and if that meant she had to do and say things that made her stomach curdle, well, that was just too bad for her stomach.

(I love Eloise Pritchart, in case that isn't clear. I'd even go so far to say that she is at least as much a hero as Honor is, if not even more so.)

As for Javier's treecat name - we never heard one, and it's up in the air as to whether or not the treecats would be able to give him one, because no treecat ever tasted his "mind-glow" directly. But it is possible that they might be able to do so based on Eloise's memories of him. And if he does have one - I want it!!

*devolves into incoherent babble and slaughters another box of tissues*