When did Honor become the MVP?

Coming back from the dead after that very public double state funeral.

As for Michelle and Honor, Michelle's career was held back by her attitude to her self percieved favortism.

cthia wrote:Another piece of interesting baggage I carry is the fact that Honor and Michelle were roommates. At that time Honor was less than a baby in the political arena. She even hated it. Compared to Michelle, who coached Honor in the art and importance of politics along with Courvosier, was head and shoulders above Honor in politics. Yet, one day the student became the teacher.

As miscreant roomies, Honor and Michelle started out on even footing in the military. Yet Honor shot past Michelle in that area fairly quickly. Not to take anything away from Henke, because Honor shot past so many other officers as well. Was it mostly because of her accumulated experience and "luck" of the draw of always being in the hottest part of the galaxy?

Harrington was taught by a Demon, Murphy.

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************

If you follow Honor's career path, it is "normal" in the sense that she advances to greater anthority and greater responsibility following previous achievements or assignments.

Yes, she does have certain "built-in" advantages as a result of being a Merrydal-B (sp) Genie, but those are secondary to the attitude of applying 120% effort in any of her assignments. (and the fact that she survived those previous assignments).

Michelle Henke has some psychological baggage in wanting to avoid any appearance of patronage or preferential treatment as a royal.


-- Stewart

stewart wrote:

cthia wrote:Another piece of interesting baggage I carry is the fact that Honor and Michelle were roommates. At that time Honor was less than a baby in the political arena. She even hated it. Compared to Michelle, who coached Honor in the art and importance of politics along with Courvosier, was head and shoulders above Honor in politics. Yet, one day the student became the teacher.

As miscreant roomies, Honor and Michelle started out on even footing in the military. Yet Honor shot past Michelle in that area fairly quickly. Not to take anything away from Henke, because Honor shot past so many other officers as well. Was it mostly because of her accumulated experience and "luck" of the draw of always being in the hottest part of the galaxy?

Harrington was taught by a Demon, Murphy.

.

************

If you follow Honor's career path, it is "normal" in the sense that she advances to greater anthority and greater responsibility following previous achievements or assignments.

Yes, she does have certain "built-in" advantages as a result of being a Merrydal-B (sp) Genie, but those are secondary to the attitude of applying 120% effort in any of her assignments. (and the fact that she survived those previous assignments).

Michelle Henke has some psychological baggage in wanting to avoid any appearance of patronage or preferential treatment as a royal.


-- Stewart

She was actually a bit slow until Basilisk Station. Pavel Young was ahead of her in terms of promotions. She did catch up, thanks to winning a couple of battles where she was outnumbered, but he still outranked her at Short Victorious War except that she was Flag Captain.

That was a key element in his defense.

And then she was held back.

The whole thing where she was captured and set up as executed brought her to everyone's attention and when she got back...leading a small captured fleet, that really did it.

Even then she was not the MVP and a real target for the Conservatives and Liberals.

She was a favorite for some but even at the time of At All Costs was the leader of one of the smaller fleets. It was the most modern but...

And when she won, that put her on top.

ldwechsler wrote:
She was actually a bit slow until Basilisk Station. Pavel Young was ahead of her in terms of promotions. She did catch up, thanks to winning a couple of battles where she was outnumbered, but he still outranked her at Short Victorious War except that she was Flag Captain.

That was a key element in his defense.

And then she was held back.

The whole thing where she was captured and set up as executed brought her to everyone's attention and when she got back...leading a small captured fleet, that really did it.

Even then she was not the MVP and a real target for the Conservatives and Liberals.

She was a favorite for some but even at the time of At All Costs was the leader of one of the smaller fleets. It was the most modern but...

And when she won, that put her on top.

I would not call her pre-Basilisk career slow, she just lacked the political backing to get her career rushed ahead. In fact, She was one of the few officers to get a destroyer BEFORE attending the Crusher.

If you were to plot the careers of officers with and without political backing separately, her pre-Basilisk career probably had her leading the non-political pack.

Honor Harrington does NOT
become the MVP until the end of WAR OF HONOR. She is the ONLY RMN Admiral that wins a victory by defeating Havenite forces at Sidemor. She also negotiates an alliance with the Adermandi Empire. At this point she rises to the status of a STRATEGIST rather than a TACTICIAN.


Keep in mind that while Michelle Henke has an extremely competent career, she never is placed into a situation where she commands in a Death Ride until AAC. Otherwise Mike would be a contender for MVP.

If I recall correctly Pavel Young was two years ahead of Honor at the academy. So it would make sense, especially in peace time, that he was senior to her prior to Basilisk Station.

Theemile wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:
She was actually a bit slow until Basilisk Station. Pavel Young was ahead of her in terms of promotions. She did catch up, thanks to winning a couple of battles where she was outnumbered, but he still outranked her at Short Victorious War except that she was Flag Captain.



.

I would not call her pre-Basilisk career slow, she just lacked the political backing to get her career rushed ahead. In fact, She was one of the few officers to get a destroyer BEFORE attending the Crusher.

If you were to plot the careers of officers with and without political backing separately, her pre-Basilisk career probably had her leading the non-political pack.

Starting with Elvis Santino on her snotty cruise, Young and his allies worked to hamper Honor's career. In SVW, IIRC, Young consoles himself with the memory of how she had been held back through their efforts.

I think that was offset some by her activities in the Avalanche and saving the ratings in the power room. Honor was one of the few people to command a Destroyer prior to going through the Crusher. I'd say Young's efforts merely mitigated Honor's good deeds. Honor still moved up the ranks at an above average pace.

ywing14 wrote:I think that was offset some by her activities in the Avalanche and saving the ratings in the power room. Honor was one of the few people to command a Destroyer prior to going through the Crusher. I'd say Young's efforts merely mitigated Honor's good deeds. Honor still moved up the ranks at an above average pace.

IIRC, Michelle was senior to Honor before the events of _On Basilisk Station_. The double promotion put Honor ahead, where she has stayed.

Amazing insight all around.


I have to learn to deal with my own baggage. I was miffed that Honor rode around in, well if they were cars I'd call them AMC Pacers. 'Ouch!' She didn't get to play with heavy metal until Nike.

But that's not a fair gripe on my part, I know it. Honor had to learn different commands before she was ready for a BC and to be part of someone else's force. TBH, I never thought it was a fitting use of her talent as backup to someone else's order of battle. She was always the better commander, IMO. Beauracracy and red tape held her back. For instance, it came off as a waste to me when she had to put up with Parks. Honestly, name one time she was part of someone else's forces but wasn't the better commander.

It seems to me that her political career took off faster than her naval career, and she hated politics. Go figure.

In my warped brain, she became the MVP the moment the Havenites began to fear her. Boogeyman? Salamander? Honor kept the Peeps honest. Her value was priceless then.

I wish I could find that particular post of RFC's. I recalled him mentioning Hamish as being more valuable when I was complaining about her riding in tin cans.

I just can't put my finger on a well demarcated line where it first became clear that she was the 'Cats meow. And for certain, there will be a world of difference between what the Manties and Graysons will ultimately say about it.

Many of you certainly make some compelling arguments. I've come across a few really good votes. All of them are really interesting.

It's as if she woke up one morning and she was it. On several occasions I remember thinking, hey, she's doing Caparelli's thinking for him. Honor's understanding of war seemed way above average. Winning battles and mastering tactics is one thing, but she seemed to know why the Peeps did what they did. She was always able to get inside their head. Which seemed way above her paygrade to me, yet she was still riding in tin cans and suffering imbeciles.

When she reprimanded Hamish about the new weapon systems, it didn't come as a surprise to me. Well, the part about her being the better officer between her and Hamish, that is. IMO, that came long before she had to jerk his chain about the new weapon systems.

I ain't apologizing for calling Honor's first Fearless an AMC Pacer. I liked that bucket of bolts and the heights Honor took her, but come on, way too many other CO's were wasting some much heavier metal. Or rather, much heavier metal that Honor should have had was wasted on jackasses.

If I ever get a chance to address the right people at the Admiralty, I'd say she was the MVP long before politics allowed her to accept the award. Now when exactly that was beats me.