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NEED TO KNOW

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: NEED TO KNOW
Post by kzt   » Fri May 13, 2022 6:12 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:[1] I believe you're alluding to this bit from IEH "Honor's cutter drifted through the enormous hatch of HMS Wayfarer's Number One Hold. The small craft was a tiny minnow against the vast, star-speckled maw of cargo doors which could easily have admitted a destroyer, and the hold they served was built to the same gargantuan scale." It doesn't clearly say that the hold was large enough to fit an entire destroyer; just that the doors were large enough and the hold was very large. But also, that hold was being modified with Warfarer's pod rails, so to carry enough pods the yard may well have modified the freighter to lengthen that hold, in addition to adding the rear cargo/pod doors and extending the hold (and pod rails) all the way to the aft end of the ship. In it's pre-conversion service the number one (rearmost?) hold might have been smaller than what's described here.

But at a minimum if you have to specify it was the number 1 hold that logically implies that she's subdivided into multiple holds; so at a minimum we know all it's cargo space isn't available to try to slip one warship into.[/size]

You’ll have to go argue with the Bu9 guys who spend an hour talking about this a few years ago, with slides and graphics. The ships are unbelievably huge.
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Re: NEED TO KNOW
Post by Brigade XO   » Sat May 14, 2022 4:09 pm

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Although not addressed in the book, it is possible that assigning Fearless to Basilisk was partially driven by complaints from Astro Control and others that the present commander on the station was not doing almost anything as far as enforcing customs and other regulations, either out at the terminus or in the system
Basilisk wasn't quite the insignificant backwater sometimes hinted at. It is the 2nd access transfer point from the Junction to Silesia and lets ships get directly to the other end of Silesia (as viewed from Gregor). So there is traffic and ships are both just using the terminus to come via the Junction there and heading directly to some point in Silesia w/o stopping at the planet or coming in to the system on the way to the terminus from other points

There seems to have been a total lack of attention to anything regarding enforcement of anything on Young's part and Astro Control wasn't given much of anything to do the job they were being presented with. Yes, Basilisk was a political problem and while the one party (the non-expansionist bunch etc) couldn't get the system cast off the responsibility and ownership as they wanted, they blocked most of what would have been sent there to provide an adequate customs force. I agree Young was probably fobbed off there by those in the Admiralty who found him a classic example of rising beyond capability though patronage and it would get him out of the way of people who were both actualy doing their jobs and needing to rise though the service. It's a complicated set of choices between multiple less-than-ideal ways to deal with both Young himself and taking a few sort of subtle cuts at the North Haven crowd and then anti-expansionest group by parking his unless but highly polished ass there and almost daring the North Haven / Edward Janacek groups to do something about it. Young being given command of the station including a terminus..... go ahead, say he doesn't deserve it or...it is beneath his entitled self.
So they stick Fearless - which at this point isn't something your going to send out hunting pirates- with a talented commander who works hard at finding ways to do her job- and possibly figure that Young is going to dump all sorts of (to him) busy work on the Fearless's commander like customs, while Young gets to play top cat and order people around.
Clearly, in the book, when various people in the Admiralty see what Harrington is doing on her own -and getting the reports from both Astro Control and the Barroness- they get very creative on forcing Young to stay away from the station he effectively abandoned by returning home with the Warlock instead of just sending the ship under his XO back to Manticore for the "nessesary refit" It would appear that Harrington made more positive impact on the Basilisk system in a couple of weeks of running the Station on her own than Young made in whatever time he spent there
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Re: NEED TO KNOW
Post by tlb   » Sat May 14, 2022 5:38 pm

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Sending Fearless would not have changed anything if Pavel Young had stayed on station; so it is highly unlikely that Honor was sent because ACS had complained about lack of action on customs enforcement. Besides, the only complaint that they had about Pavel Young was his interference in ACS activities, by trying to tell them how to do their job. The customs enforcement that Honor began was the first anyone had done it in decades.
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Re: NEED TO KNOW
Post by munroburton   » Sat May 14, 2022 6:25 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:So they stick Fearless - which at this point isn't something your going to send out hunting pirates- with a talented commander who works hard at finding ways to do her job- and possibly figure that Young is going to dump all sorts of (to him) busy work on the Fearless's commander like customs, while Young gets to play top cat and order people around.
Clearly, in the book, when various people in the Admiralty see what Harrington is doing on her own -and getting the reports from both Astro Control and the Barroness- they get very creative on forcing Young to stay away from the station he effectively abandoned by returning home with the Warlock instead of just sending the ship under his XO back to Manticore for the "nessesary refit" It would appear that Harrington made more positive impact on the Basilisk system in a couple of weeks of running the Station on her own than Young made in whatever time he spent there


The reaction of those various people shows that none of them expected Young to withdraw his ship and dump the entire station command upon Honor and Fearless. He might have ordered Fearless to carry out some mundane tasks, but it was more likely IMO that Young would have had them both sit in Medusa orbit doing very little. His ego wouldn't allow Honor to go around effectively pointing out and patching his derelictions of duty - indeed, once he realised what she was doing, he tried to get back on station which then brought about the Admiralty's creativity in keeping him away.

And based on the deep background here: https://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/e ... gton/37/1/

Webster had no real expectations. He was just keeping Honor on active duty until some other suitable posting came up instead of immediately scrapping Fearless with the consequence of parking her on the beach until that posting came up.

Hmm, according to HoS, the Valiant-class was coming online a year or so after the Battle of Basilisk took place and was going to replace the Courageous on a hull-for-hull basis - and the Valiants would inherit their precedessors' names.

So that was possibly his intention for Honor's career path if the Peeps hadn't tried to screw with Basilisk. Straight into the next HMS Fearless, which wouldn't have been a Star Knight but probably the second Valiant-class to be commissioned.
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Re: NEED TO KNOW
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun May 15, 2022 1:52 am

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munroburton wrote:Hmm, according to HoS, the Valiant-class was coming online a year or so after the Battle of Basilisk took place and was going to replace the Courageous on a hull-for-hull basis - and the Valiants would inherit their precedessors' names.

So that was possibly his intention for Honor's career path if the Peeps hadn't tried to screw with Basilisk. Straight into the next HMS Fearless, which wouldn't have been a Star Knight but probably the second Valiant-class to be commissioned.


Interesting thought. That's very possible. Though it might have necessitated one more promotion before that, to Captain (j.g.). When Henke was CO of Agni, a much older Apollo-class light-cruiser, she was already one. But Truman was Commander when she skippered HMS Apollo, so there's a precedent. And we know Henke frequently sabotaged her own career, so her being slow there shouldn't be taken as a norm.

Anyway, Honor had been a Commander for a while and had been CO of a hyper-capable warship even before Fearless, so she'd already have two command stars on her uniform.

Of course, Honor derailed that by doing an outstanding job at Basilisk and skipping the junior captain grade altogether.
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